Trade Representative of the Pacific Islands Forum on Climate Change

Host: Welcome to our series of interviews of United Nations Climate Change Conference in Durban South Africa. Our guest for today’s interview is Sam Savou, Trade Representative of the Pacific Islands Forum Trade Office to China.

Good afternoon, Mr. Savou! And welcome to our studio again!

Sam Savou: Thank you, Ms. Zhang Yunyun. And thank you to China (Development) Gateway for having us here and for having this program which we believe is very important, bearing in mind the current discussions that are happening in South Africa.

Host: It’s our pleasure.

My first question is the 42nd Pacific Islands Forum Leaders Meeting was held in Auckland this September. The top priority of this forum is the issue of climate change, which has already been affecting this region. Specifically, what steps were taken at this forum to address climate change?

Sam Savou: I think from the leaders meeting that was held in Auckland on the 42nd leaders meeting and the 40th anniversary of Pacific Islands Forum leaders, there were several outcomes of that that came out to the community. And one of it was climate change. In climate change, the leaders reaffirmed that climate change remains the single biggest threat for the Pacific countries’ livelihoods, security and well-being of the people of the Pacific. Particularly, in the sense that the Pacific Islands contributes the least greenhouse emission, but it would be suffering one of the most from the effects of climate change. And that is one of the biggest factors that we are facing. Some of our countries in the Pacific now, seeing the effects of climate change, and it’s not something that is in the future, it’s something that is happening now on the ground.

Host: OK. Can you discuss how climate change affects Pacific Island countries, especially those in the South Pacific Islands?

Sam Savou: I think what a lot of people don’t realize at the moment is that in the Pacific, we already have climate change refugees. This has happened about three or four years ago. And whilst the topic now is on Kiribati , Tuwalu and low-lying atolls. The biggest countries of Vanuatu and Papua New Guinea have already had displaced people because of climate change. In Papua New Guinea, in 2008 and 2009, people out in the Carteret Islands had to be moved off, because those islands now by 2015 will be under water. And also in Vanuatu, the same thing has happened. And the next people on the list of countries that would be affected most by this would be Kiribati and Tuvalu. So in the Pacific, whilst we have 15 countries, each country’s vulnerability to climate change differs, but some of the countries are suffering more than others.

Host: Can you talk about the effects in terms of the economy and society?

Sam Savou: Ok. I think when you look at the climate change, it cannot be looked at in isolation, because for the Pacific, tourism is a big part of the Pacific. And when you look at the tourism, in some countries, it’s about 70 percent of GDP. Take for example, the Cook Islands. With the effects of climate change, what we have seen this year is Cook Islands had a shortage of water because of global warming. And if there is a shortage of water, that affects tourism industry because you can’t service the tourists that come, because there is no water. This is some effects that is happening. Another example is in Tuvalu, where because of the warming of climate, you can see now the carol is bleaching. And then the tourists that come to go to the beach want to see carol, if the carol is bleaching, they don’t come to see bleached carol. So that affects the tourism industry. On the economic side, there is a big impact. And so that has a rolling effect for the economy as well. For countries that heavily rely on tourism, this is one of the examples, where it can affect the economy, it can affect the whole running of the country.

Host: For some small Pacific Island countries, climate change is seemingly more worrisome. I’ve learned that such islands tend to be badly affected by the climate change, by the rising sea levels, some of which are even in danger of being inundated. How serious is the current situation of these small Pacific Island countries?

Sam Savou: I think we were fortunate enough that prior to the Pacific Island forum leaders meeting, Ban Ki-moon on his way to the leaders meeting stopped off in Kiribati to have a look at the effects of climate change in Kiribati. He was surprised by what he saw - first hand - of the effects of climate change in the country. Even the president of Kiribati, President Tong has said that while people are thinking about the future, it’s happening to them now. And everything needs to be taken account of now. While some of the people seem to have the targets and all this for the future, for some of the Pacific Island countries, if we wait for that time, there will be no countries left. Even in Tuvalu now, there has been a report, where there’s been a shortage of water, and because of that, all the plants have died. So there is a shortage of food, so now they have to replant everything. Also the rising sea levels, now the salt water that’s getting into the water system, also getting into the food supply, so it’s killing that off as well. So in some countries it’s getting badly affected, particularly in the low-lying atolls.

Host: So for Pacific Island countries, on the one hand, you have to maintain a sustainable economic development; and also you have to address climate change. My question is what are the major obstacles to overcome in regard to the economic development?

Sam Savou: I think there is a big challenge because island countries are small in itself, so the economies are limited and small. And so there is a challenge about addressing climate change and being able to support your countries. And as the president of Kiribati said is they need funding from international agencies, so they can plan for adaptation for their economies. But if that funding is not forthcoming, then they will have to divert the money was supposed to be for the economy to help their people. So these are the dilemmas that are facing the countries now. I think with what’s happening in Durban now, about the what they called the Green Fund, that is supposed be funding available to the developing countries for the adaptation for climate change. I think that has to be forthcoming, the mechanisms are making that happened. I think for the Pacific Island countries, that’s one of the key things that they are looking for as an outcome out of the Durban meeting.

Host: Just now you mentioned the tourism. And tourism is a key industry in Pacific Island countries. What is the best way to protect this industry from the potential effects of the global warming?

Sam Savou: I think the Pacific is trying to do all they can to sustain the tourism industry while they bring in the clean energy and all that. But I think the Pacific contribute so little to what’s happening in the bigger part of the world, in global warming. I think the research shows that the Pacific contributes 0.3 percent to global warming, but the effects on the Pacific is so big, we don’t have the resources, nor do we have the technology to fight it. We are doing what we can. So we need the adaptation fund to be able to sustain or to help the Pacific Island countries. Not only in the Pacific, the Caribbean, also in the African Caribbean region to help them as well, to help all the small island countries to adapt to what’s happening now, because climate change is bigger than us, and I think our economy won’t be able to sustain it.

Host: Can you describe the cooperation between Pacific Island countries and other countries, including China, in regard to the issue of climate change? And how do you describe the current cooperation efforts?

Sam Savou: I think the current cooperation efforts by most of the developed countries are more on bilateral level, whereas there are some multilateral funding that’s happening. There is a lot of push towards clean energy across the Pacific, so that countries that come to wind turbine, with solar, and one that’s been funded through Pacific that’s been administered by the Pacific Islands Forum, is one that’s been provided for by Japan on the Pacific Environment Community Fund, where they are looking at the salt land desalination. With the salt land desalination, countries can choose either desalination or hybrid system to be put in. so that will help them also with greenhouse gases, its renewable energy sustainable. So these are some sort of projects that started to happen now in the Pacific.

Host: What about the cooperation with China?

Sam Savou: I think the cooperation with China is more on bilateral level at the moment. And also China is working closely with the forum on different projects, but also China is encouraging its private sector to come to the Pacific as we speak there are some Chinese companies that are looking at developing renewable energy in the Pacific, they are looking at different partners. So something has been on the rise of the last three years. And I think the results and the progress today has been very positive.

Host: For Pacific Island countries, what is the priority in tackling climate change?

Sam Savou: As per se or with regards to what’s happening in Durban? I think with regards to what’s happening in Durban, the Pacific has as I understood two clear objectives as outcomes for their attend to Durban. One is to get the Green Climate Fund, because that is really needed for the small developing states, in the African, Caribbean and Pacific. That is a must. And I think the second one is trying to make sure that there is a key outcome or continuation of something like Kyoto, because if something substantive is put off, some of the countries won’t be there next time this happens. So it’s imperative that something substantial happens now, and I think that’s why the Pacific is there, to try to make sure other small groups or other vulnerable groups in the world, to make sure that something come out at this meeting in Durban.

Host: What kind of aid or knowledge do you hope to gain from other countries in regard to addressing climate change?

Sam Savou: I think as in all industries there is all best practice, in different things around the world. And you only get best practice by sharing knowledge, sharing information and sharing technology. And with the small vulnerable countries in the Pacific, something we lack in addition to financial resources, is technological resources. And I think we looked to developing countries and also developed countries. And developing countries like China, India, South Africa, and Argentina. And also the developed countries like Europe, US, Australia and New Zealand to be strong partners and advocates in sharing technology. That will help the small developing countries that are more vulnerable to the challenges of climate change.

Host: So we know that the United Nations Climate Change Conference is now ongoing in Durban, South Africa. What issues of the agenda at the conference are you concerned with the most?

Sam Savou: I think not so much the issues but I think everybody focuses on the outcome. For the Pacific two outcomes that I mentioned are really important. Not only for the Pacific, but also the Caribbean and African these more vulnerable states. And making sure that the Green Climate Fund is there for adaptation but also that something substantive comes out of this round of talks and is not put off to a later date.

Host: So in your opinion, what is the role of Pacific Island Countries in the international climate change negotiations?

Sam Savou: I think something Pacific Islands can share in the negotiations in Durban is the effects of climate change that is happening now. I think for some people, it is not the reality; it’s still in the future. But if they can see what’s happening now, I think they will wake up to see what will happen. I mean they can see what will happen, there is a guy that’s part of Tuvalu delegation that’s in Durban. And he will say when he was small he would go 50 meter to shore and fish. And there was fish, there was coral, but the changing the temperature of the ocean, and with bleaching, there’s no fish available now. Now he has to get fuel for a punt to go out, and he might fish for 2 hours and still don’t catch anything. So the whole dynamic has changed from when he was a boy to where he is now. And now there’s no food, the shortage of water, so there’s been a big change over the last 30, 40 years with climate change and rising temperature levels. So this is something that’s happening first hand, the Pacific can share with the rest of the world, and I think if people to see what’s really happening, I think it’s positive that Ban Ki-moon came to the Pacific, and he saw what’s happening in Kiribati. So it’s something that he took away, and that something has to happen. I think the more people see what’s happening now, and they can picture what’s actually happen and what’s potentially going to happen in the future if they don’t act now, I think that’s the message the Pacific can share.

Host: Thank you! At the end of this interview, I want to thank you again for your detailed information. That’s very impressive. And China Development Gateway is looking forward to more cooperation with Pacific Island Forum. Let’s work together to save tomorrow today.

Sam Savou: Thank you and I’d like to thank China (Development) Gateway for giving me this opportunity, and trying to lift the awareness for the people of the Pacific, and livelihoods of our people. Thank you!

Host: Thank you for your watching! See you next time!